Expat Workers Treatment By Saudis; How Expats are treated in Saudi Arabia
80How are Expats Treated by Saudi People
If you asked me how are expat workers treated by Saudis as a westerner working in Saudi Arabia (From the UK and I look and
dress like a “typical” westerner) I will tell you that I am treated in general with respect and in
most cases people are very friendly in the work place and in public. However this can be very different for expats working in Saudi Arabia from less affluent countries.
There appears to be a number of different levels both socially and educationally within the Saudi society in much the same way that there is in any country, each group treating you very differently.
I guess that the bulk of the Saudis that I mix with on a day to day basis whilst working for a company in Saudi Arabia are on the whole quite well educated, having degrees, well traveled overseas, with a good grasp of the English language. In my experience these people act and behave in much the same way as any westerner in most situations, they are however very reserved in general with regard to their behavior in public and try to maintain a very decent front, but more about this a little later in my ramblings.
I have had little experience of mixing with the true “upper” classes here, having never met any big sheiks or princes or the like so I have no idea myself only what others have told me. Again these upper levels of society treat us westerners in much the same way that we treat each other.
The lower end of the scale however are a very mixed bunch, varying from very aggressive arrogant idiots to shy retiring non English speakers, the latter generally avoiding any sort of contact at all. The “arrogant idiots” are a strange bunch, they look at you and treat you as if you are a low life as a non-Saudi and non-Muslim, I have never seen any abuse or shout at a westerner, however god help any Indian, Filipino or other similar nationality that should be in sight when they get pissed off, which they often do!
As a Westerner, my general experience is that the treatment of expats in Saudi Arabia depends very much on the Saudis educational level and ability to speak English, the higher the level the better the Saudi will treat you. A Saudi speaking no English is likely at best to just ignore you.
I have on the whole found most Saudi’s very pleasant towards me and have been invited to parties, events and weddings just because I am a westerner, often by people I have only just met. Something that has rarely happened in the west.
Treatment of Women
General Saudi Behaviour
I guess the best way to describe the average Saudi is as a petulant teenager, they are on the whole mostly happy and friendly, however, take away their toys, tell them no, or fail to give them attention when they want it and you are going to get a tantrum.
They have no patience, jump any queue that does not contain other Saudis, interrupt everyone regardless, expect instant service and complain loudly and bitterly if they don’t receive it. I have seen them shout at shop assistants, even strike them and have to be restrained and treat maids and drivers in much the same way (I have never seen a woman strike anyone but have seen a few shouting at “lesser” races and at each other on several occaisions!)
Don’t get me wrong, I have seen some of the best most compassionate behavior from Saudis as well as the worst! I have been offered help by almost every driver passing when I have had to change a tire, and seen Saudis handing money, food, drinks and other gifts to beggars and lowly paid street workers (no not that kind of street worker, I mean the Indians and Bengalis that are employed sweeping the streets.)
How Saudis Treat Women
Discrimination in Saudi Society
The society is strange with regard to racism, the Saudis are a very mixed race varying from almost western “white” to African “Black” and all treat each other equally as much as I can tell, most wear traditional dress, the long white Thobe, and they treat each other with respect in most cases. However they treat other races and non-Muslims very differently, other Arabs are generally Ok but still not treated with the same respect, Westerners are tolerated and treated to their face with respect, other races such as Pakistanis, Filipinos, Indians, Indonesians and the like being treated like 3rd and in some cases 4th class citizens publicly!
Basically they practice discrimination but it is based very much on social class, many of the Saudis driving the biggest and most expensive car they can and acting as the most wealthy man in town even if they have nothing else.
How non-western Expatriates are Treated
Results of Saudi Abuse
How are non-western Expats treated by Saudis?
If you asked me as a non-westerner "how are expat workers treated by saudis?" then I would be giving a very different answer to the one above.
Most of the Expatriates working here are from countries like India, Pakistan, Philippines and Indonesia; they work in mostly manual or domestic jobs and are paid a very low wage (although still very good for where they came from).
They generally have to put up with verbal and physical abuse in the work place, either industrial or domestic. Some of the treatment is trully horrific, there is a case of a maid who had nails and pins inserted into her whenever she upset her employer as her punishment! I know many maids and drivers who have run away from violent abusive employers as well as various other general laborers who cannot bear their working conditions.
A large number of Saudis treat these poor expat workers in Saudi Arabia as animals, I have witnessed both physical and verbal abuse of workers here, something I have never seen in any other country! The treatment of expats in Saudi Arabia for these poor souls is on the whole terrible and I have found it very difficult to bite my tongue at times.
So difficult to bite my tongue that when a group of Saudis tried to convert me to the Muslim faith I used this as an example of their totally hypocritical behavior which they had to agree with and were totally unable to defend.
Problems Mixing with Saudis
As an expat working in Saudi Arabia I have had only three minor incidents in my three years here, none of which were serious. I was spat at from a moving car by a group of Saudi youths (around the 20’s mark I would guess), and I had another group of bored Saudi Youth overtake me whilst driving only to open both passenger doors on my side and the youths to hang out of the car shouting at me in Arabic and making gestures – they soon jumped back in when I put my foot on the accelerator and drove at them (Probably not a good move on my part!)
The worst by far was a driving incident (nothing to do with my nationality) which I include in the hub about traveling by car in Saudi Arabia.
On the whole I feel safer and more comfortable walking the streets here in Saudi Arabia than most other countries that I have visited or lived. I have had more problems walking in the streets in major cities in the west than I have here and felt far less comfortable!
However I would still not like to be a non-westerner or a woman walking alone here in Saudi Arabia. A woman in my mind should never walk about on her own in Saudi Arabia, read the hub on Saudi Arabia rules, regulations and laws for examples.
Treatment of Western Expats in Saudi Arabia
How have you been treated as a westerner in Saudi Arabia.
See results without votingTreatment of Non-Western Expats in Saudi Arabia
If you are a non-western Expat (Indian, Pakistani, Filipino, etc.) working in Saudi Arabia, how have you been treated by the Saudis that you have contact with?
See results without votingMore Information About Saudi Arabia
If you have enjoyed this article you may find the following useful if you are going to be working in Saudi Arabia.
If you are an expat working in Saudi Arabia and are experiencing the treatment mentioned above then maybe some of the information mentioned in the following articles will be of help.
If you still want to work in KSA then this article about finding Saudi Arabia Jobs will be of use and then you will need to apply for your Saudi Visas. You may wish to learn more about being an expat in Saudi Arabia before you come here.
You will need to know about Saudi Arabia Hotels or Saudi Arabia Compounds or the various alternatives if you are going to stay here in the kingdom.
If you are a woman and coming to KSA to work or be with your family then this article about Saudi Arabia Women will help to keep you informed. Just remember that once you are in Saudi Arabia the only way you can leave is with your husbands permission.
If you are going to fly then this Saudi Arabian Airline review will be of use and if you will drive then these articles about Saudi roads, Saudi Accidents, and driving from Riyadh to Jeddah by road will help you.
Life in Saudi Arabia can be very restrictive and boring so you may wish to find entertainment in Saudi Arabia or visit the Makkah Clock Tower if you are a Muslim. If you are single and quite brave then you may wish to try dating in Saudi Arabia but take care as this can lead to real problems.
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Another great hub with Saudi Arabia as good topic. I learn much from you. Good information. Thanks for share with us. Vote this up!
Prasetio
Thanks for the comments, yes every woman here has to cover head to foot, not all cover their face here in saudi arabia but many do, looks very silly with a veil and glasses over the top by the way...
HELLO,I am also a resident of saudi arabia.Yes what you said about the discriminatory behaviour of saudies about Pakistanies, Indians and others is absolutely right.While this is not realy a part of Islam.Islam said that there is no prefernce over any saudi to non saudi and any fair to any white, infront of Allah,Execpt One's good religious behaviour.But saudi goes against this Islamic law.But yes covering women with Burkah and veil never looks silly.Actually some time when I saw a woman walking on the beach and wearing only bikini and showing to the people and peaople watching her and makin mock of her and talking about her body it looks silly to me.everyone has his or her own point of view.you are optimistic about saudi arabia so I Like your hubs and following you and invite you to join my fan club.Keep writing and keep smiling.
Hi Niddz, Thanks for your comments, it is the same in most societies around the world. People expect a certain standard of behaviour from people based on the rules of that society but there are always people that say one thing and do another. I like Saudi Arabia and hope to be here for some time.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I WISH YOU ALSO ENJOY YOUR TIME IN SAUDI. KEEP WRITING AND KEEP SMILING.
I love walking and this Hub is very interesting - the little tiny things I take for granted. I have worked hard to have great neighborhoods to walk in.
Funny, as a female, even in the US - we garner more gawks than men.
When I was in Dubai I was treated very well but the UK overly stuffy were rather terse with me for traveling alone. Traveling alone was not my choice - I don't believe the UK gents understood that. The Muslims were very respectful. The UK gents made it known I was simply female and a short timer.
Great insights - thank you very much!
Thank you for your comments GmaGoldie, hope you enjoyed your time in the middle east.
You have described Saudi Arabia and the life there very well. Their dress and behaviour towards different types of people etc was interesting to read about.
Never been myself but it is in the news so much that I do have a passing interest in the country.
Thanks for your comments Viking, I have been here almost 3 years now and I can safely say that Saudi Arabia is by far the strangest place I have ever been..
nt to be there to have friends and associatesWa
Thank you reading and commenting Abduljalal.
Original Saudi
The lady in attached picture not a Saudi women, she is an Illegal African lady. You may need to find anther picture with a cleaned cover or 'Abaayah' as we call it.
Most of the African ladies are not eligible and we do a respect to them while they are coming to our country for a small business and at the end when they are planning to get back to home they are saying a good words (such as thanking) to Saudi counties RATHER than others where they leave a shit.
So, Welcome to African Ladies
I am glad that you are able to accurately identify the person in the picture Original Saudi, but I am not quite sure as to what you are trying to say.
Oh,,,LeanMan lock that I m writing poor English.
Sorry, English it's my second Language.
Again, same to me…
I could not understand this much of hubs and post under your name "LeanMan" about Saudi Arabia "or I will call it 'Stupid Saudi Arabia' reference to your hubs" and you are still in this country.
You will loss your control if you stay more in this dummy country, what I can advise you to leave today before tomorrow ASAP.
Don't worry,,, others can adapt.
I don’t know………
Hello again Original Saudi, I think you have the wrong impression of me, or I don't understand your comments. I enjoy living in Saudi Arabia, I feel safe and most of the people I interact with are very pleasant and polite to me.
Your country has to make some improvements with regards to how you treat women and non-westerners however!
I have no plans to leave Saudi Arabia, I am enjoying my stay here very much and helping to add to your economy by trying to make the company that I work for as productive as possible.
Have a very nice day Original Saudi.
Looks that I m not in a wrong impression while most "or actually All" of your Hubs report badly thinks about Saudi Arabia (No Pros). This will forward your bad impression to the world (or site reader).
Yes, I m agree with you that we are still we need to improve in certain area mainly in government services. What I can say, let us make your hubs more efficient by forwarding your notes to whom it may concern in order to come up with some advantage by solving these weakness. For example, when you are writing about Visa process and how it is difficult, you are writing a valuable advice they (Passport and Visa Office) may pay a lot to find these advices. I think you will do a favor to them if you report it to them directly or report it using any official media such as newspaper (ArabNwes) instead of posing these advices in a dark pools.
Hope that are understandable
Best Regard
Hi again Original Saudi, nice to see more comments from you, I don't think you have read my hubs very well if you think I do not report the "pros" about Saudi Arabia, read above, I state that I have seen some of the most compassionate behavior from Saudis, that Saudi is the only country where I have got many friendly invitations from people I have only just met, and so on.
However just like in any society in the world your society is marred by the ignorant few who behave badly, much like I am sure many people outside of the states think that the states is rampant with crime and guns.
I have reported both sides of most situations here as well as I can, but I want to make sure my readers are prepared for the worst that can happen to them should they visit here in Saudi Arabia. As an expat on the whole as I have said above I have been treated with respect and kindness by most people, but there are a number of bad apples that need to be avoided and they spoil the whole society. The Saudi people need to be less tolerant of these people and root them out so that they change their ways.
Continue to turn a blind eye to peoples bad behavior and it will be allowed to continue, the Saudis need to change!
If the police on the roads punished every bad maneuver on the roads that they observed consistently for 3 months the behavior would change.. If companies could get rid of Saudis that did not do their jobs to the full, then those people who behave that way would have to do their jobs better or lose those jobs..If the government employed "mystery shoppers" to test their ministries and the like then they would soon see the true picture of what goes on and be able to correct it, if they really want to!
I am sorry that you do not like some of the things that I write, but rather than attack the messenger maybe you would like to do something about the message!
In my experience Saudis do not like to be criticized by outsiders like myself, if you want to change your society for the better then it is down to people like yourself to tackle the problems! Don't bury your head in the sand to shut out the problems, deal with the problems, not the people who point them out to you!
Do you truly like the behavior on your roads? Do you like it when you see some Indian worker being shouted at by a Saudi for some minor problem, Do you like to read about maids that have been raped or had nails pushed into their bodies, do you like to hear about thousands of run-away workers that want to return home, and so on, the answer is not to close your eyes so that you do not see it and read about it, the answer is to change!
I hope that you do not take offense, I love being here, I love the people as a whole, but saying nothing about a problem is like saying that it is acceptable......
Would the prophet Mohamed (pbah) have allowed the behavior that exists on your road, would he have said that all of the things I mention above are acceptable? I don't think so! He would have stood up for what is right, even if people did not like it!
Thanks,l read everybody's comment about Saudi discrimnation,some sauid are nice and good to talk to,l worked in the hospital in riyadh,seen a lot.some saudi men still have the arrogant of women doesn't have the right to talk back to me,thats need to be change,this is 2010.they feel western women are rude,we are not,is the culture of speak your mind out and have the right to say youe mind,in saudi culture,women are numbers not human.I hear so many story about saudi men that they mean and jealouse,like the case of employee pinning a pins and nails to her house maid,per saudi law,nothing will happen to the employee,especially if he has power and money(power and money are evil),if that happen in the states with a proved,human rights and govement will do a big case with you.There are so many philipinos,malasia and indian female missing,working for the hospital,you know what people say,sometime saudi men kidnapp and raped women,kill them in desrt and bury them.The worst thing is l haven't hear anything done by the hospital about all this missing women.If saudi say "Insha Alla" that means nothing will be done.They are rude to staffs especially if they related to the oyal,due with respect,even if you are a millionaire,coming to hospital,l belived nurse have to threat the patient equally,that is rules of human right.saudi men in low position are so arrogant,another thing when saudi men came to hospital with his one dozen of wifes,he thinks all female nurse have to talk to him like you talking to the king.pls don't let me going on with saudi discrimination to all other country,even sometimes with western women.
Thank you for reading Nice Lady, it is nice to have the perspective of a woman that has worked within the hospitals. You are so right, this is 2010 and things have to change. I think many of the young here in Saudi Arabia want to see this change but there are also many that are still as arrogant as their elders and treat expats and women in the same manner.
I hope that things do change and that the courts and the police stop turning a blind eye to what is done by those that have money and power and that justice is done.
Hi LeanMan! Your hub is a great source of knowledge about Saudi Arabia for expats. I'm really grateful for your work.
I'm an architect/PM from Poland with 6 years experience in IRL - I have an offer from Riyadh to work as a PM for King Faisal Hospital. I'm wondering if you have any info re work conditions there? Also I'm interested what's your opinion on treatment of Poles by Saudis - I'm not concerned about the street as I guess I shall be perceived as a Westerner but I'm afraid to be treated badly in work. Any comments?
Regards
Hi Polish Bloke, I would guess that you will have very few problems as you will be seen as European by most here. The Saudis will treat you Ok but don't expect things to happen with quite the same speed as you would expect anywhere else in the world. Good luck with your contract, I am sure that you will enjoy it here.
Well, Irish aren't the fastest working nation in the world either! The worst part for me is the "safe"-keeping of passport by employer and no way to escape if things go bad.
I should be quite well there, Inshallah (since you haven't forbidden it here)
Hi polish bloke, thanks for returning. Don't worry too much about the passport side of things, you can leave at a whim in your probation period, your company will return your passport and you can part company if things are not working out. After that don't run up debts, have credit cards in the kingdom or own a car and exit after will be fine if you and your employer fall out and they want to final exit you. (Have a look at my hub on saudi visas for more info), otherwise if you want to leave the western expats often go to Dubai and the like for a weekend every now and then so the company will not question an exit visa for a weekend away enjoying yourself......... Once you are out you are out......
However if you do that you don't expect to be paid any dues owed to you.
As to the Irish, I think the tortoise and the hare may still be an analogy that could be used here!
Good luck and I hope that you are treated well as an expat here in Saudi Arabia.
That's great - it gives me peace of mind and convinces it's well worth trying. Even if treated as a trip to the last forbidden kingdom (as LonelyPlanet puts it).
Thanks for your advice!
BTW 16500SAR would be considered low or adequate salary for a PM there?
Hi Polish Bloke, the salary people get paid seems to very much reflect their nationality rather than the job. I would say that for someone from the US or UK they would probably be offering a little higher but then I don't know the seniority of the job etc. However it is a good wage however you look at it when you realize that it is tax free and I assume with accommodation and everything else on top. If you want to check your salary range try to look on www.bayt.com, they have a page where people post their salaries so that you can compare.
Well, from my point of view it is not too much (used to earn much more even after tax) but the times in Europe aren't great now for architects.
I treat the opportunity partly as an adventure and maybe a gate to other GCC posts in the future.
Read your comment with interest GmaGoldie. Obviously your travels to the uk took you to places like London an not to Bonnie Scotland where men would have traeted you far better. Shame you never travelled to Scotland what beautiful sites you missed out on, an the men dont display a stiff upper lip nor act as if someone stuck a broom handle up there arse at birth
Gundog, lol.. Being south of the border I would just like to say that as much as I love visiting Scotland I can't say I have noticed that the men there are any smoother than us, as to the broom handle I have been known to remove it for special occasions!
Not quite sure how all this relates to how expats are treated by Saudis, but a nice aside..lol
hallo
i love reading about that , the reaction for the non-saudi in saudi lol
anyway i might disagree with you in some points
maybe the veil would be silly for u but its a choice they made n its considered to be a good thing in the religious aspects ,, in some other cases its just a traditions
i choose not to wear it but its so okay with .. as its okay to see the stripes in the Red light district wearing nothing .. its a personal choice
the racism u've point to it ive released its normal ,since i moved to germany , it doesn't mean that i agree with it but .. its just the way it is ...
usually saudi treating their drivers , maids very well
of course with some exceptions but these kinda of pp
normally are uneducated
the discrimination by the government i wont argue with that
but society , families i gotta say nein
its all relative ... its different form family to another
ive never experienced that in my family n when i say this word to my father .. he goes crazy .. i use this word to piss him off
i know some saudi girls who cannot make their own choices
others are not
p.s
most of the police members don't speak English cuz its just not a requirement in their job or even in that sector ... its not that they choose not too
i'm 20 saudi girl and God only knows how i miss being there
forgot to say thanx ... take a look to that vid
hi friends i was reading your comments n its really nice , i m also an expat recently shifted to Riyadh but believe me i love this place,calm and simple life style , few of my friends say that this place is not for bechelors lol but i think evey1 has his / her own perception . sometimes it creates problem when u face some 1 who doest know english but i think we can manage as now after spending 2 months over here i am able to understand and communicate lil bit in arabic. The thing i like the most about KSA is TIMING , there are fix timing for every thing ,Weekends are only for families you cant visit Kingdom tower , fasiliya and some other places without family and i think its good coz families can enjoy freely without any problems.Cost of living is not so high so you can enjoy good standard of living.
take care ..
Hi!
I am a non-Muslim Indian woman living in Riyadh from the past 5 years. I teach at a university and so I move in academic circles who have a good attitude and respect for Indians and Pakistanis as it is we who teach the most difficult subjects viz. Computer Science and Mathematics. I have the opportunity of meeting Saudis who belong to the upper class and what you say about them is absolutely true. They are very "refined" people. My Saudi students are very affectionate. We all have been provided apartments (more like mansions) in the most safest region "Diplomatic Quarters [DQ]". DQ is heaven for expats. One can go for long walks alone without wearing abayas. It is common to see Western women jogging in shorts. It is safe and you can breath freedom here.
In short, who you are and where you work matters. There is discrimination, no doubt. What you said about Saudi youth is absolutely true too. But I am fortunate to see only the positive side of KSA. I love KSA.
Hello Every one,
Thanks for the writer for his honesty and trying to say some good things about Saudia
I am a Saudi man by the way,and want to point to some points in a rush while trying not to be defensive, just want add an othe point of veiw in order for the picture to be clearer:
- KSA people are not PERFECT, but tell me where perfect people exist in this world??
-Regarding the bad incedints you encountered are really shamefula and I AM SORRY for that on behalf of Saudi People but beleive me I have encountered worse eventhought I am a Native Saudi so it is not all because of being expats
- There are very bad stories about treating Expats but I wonder WHY the millions of the good stories are not mentioned. I witnessed tens of them and let me tell you an amazing one
(A women noticed her maid putting tissues beneath her T-shirt and when asked her why she told her that she just gave birth to a child. The Women wondered why would you come now and she told that if she refused to come the employment office in her city will put her in black list and she needs money for her family. The SAUDI women sold some of her belongings and gave the maid an amount of Money worths a one year Salary and bought her a tickit back to her country. ( I know alot of similar stories).
-Dear Readers I want to point out to a very important issue here and please tell the others whenever you were asked (Muslims are not perfect BUT ISLAM is)
that means the islamic system is a comprehensive system and covers all the necessary aspects of life in order to live in the best way possible.
Many Saudis are not good muslims too but Many of them are indeed as all the other Muslims Natinalities
Let us not be (Generic) I can not think of any Nationality as all good people !!
We all know that Brothers can be totally different.
Anyhow, I again admit that we have many bad practices in here but beleive me we are still a good country and good people and all nationalities are welcome to work her, if anyone do not like the way we live here I promise to him no one will force him to stay..
Hope you all the best
Ali
Thank you for your comments Ali about how Saudis treat Expats in Saudi Arabia, I too hear an occasional story of good treatment of poorer expat workers, but I hear far more stories and see with my own eyes poor treatment!
Whilst I understand that bad news is more likely to be repeated than good, I hear stories of maltreatment from almost every expat that I meet! I know that it is unfair to generalize about a people, but there are too many Saudis who think it is acceptable to maltreat expats, especially those from poorer countries.
In your final paragraph you state that no one will force them to stay if they want to leave, but many want to leave after they have run away from poor treatment at the hands of abusive sponsors, there are thousands that sit under the infamous bridge in Jeddah waiting to be sent home, many waiting for years doing odd jobs and begging to survive.
There are also many housemaids and drivers that are held virtual prisoners by their sponsors, denied holidays and in some cases wages and any type of freedom at all!
Whilst these may be small in number compared to those that are fairly treated, one expat being unfairly treated is too many!
Every word of what you said is true ,I live here ..and could`nt have said it better .
greetings from Saudi
I only did 6 months in Saudi but was not sorry to leave. I had few problems myself but I saw plenty of what you describe in the way of discrimination and ill treatment. Qatar is generally a kinder society, though having said that, it's still not a good place to be a maid or manual labourer.
Hi Clarisa, thank you for reading.
Thanks for reading also Paraglider, sorry that you experienced ill treatment and discrimination by the Saudis. Far too many of them are very hypocritical, preaching tolerance etc and then treating their workers like slaves.
Hey .. sorry for those how got into some problem in Saudi arabia .. anyway I leave in ireland for good time.. and it is the same happening .. I met bloody friendly irish and met some shyte irish.. I think our problem back home is not bad treatment for certain group of people as much as the bad treatment for people work for some jobs.. I noticed we had "as saudi" a serious problem to work in some jobs which I think lead to that bad attitude to those who work there..
As you might noticed the saudi how works in those poor jobs do not treat his colleagues in such bad way so I believe this problem will go soon as more saudi have to get those jobs nowadays or just pass a new low to protect the foreigners..
Tbh .. it is not the same all over saudi.. people how dont work in really big cities seems a bit happy.. or when you work with educated people.. and if you could speak arabic it give you more opportunity to engage with the society and have better understanding of whats going on..
wish you all great time there .. enjoy the most crazy country in the world :)
LeanMan,
I stumbled upon your Saudi hubs by accident have devoured them with interest. Thank you for such informative and candid window into the Saudi world.
I have been approached to give a series of training courses to international law firms in Riyadh for about two months, but I am quite wary of going there after reading about the restrictions on women and the road nightmares. In addition, I am curious about where I would fit in in terms of the "race hierarchy" in KSA. I am an American woman of mixed Japanese and Chinese ancestry and look entirely east Asian; neither "western" nor "Filipina or Indian". I will most certainly turn down the invitation if I could be subject to rudeness, never mind abuse.
Aziz, thanks for your comments, there are elements of every society in the world who are ignorant and abusive of others for many reasons, no society is free of this. However; having travelled to many countries in europe, US, Africa and Asia I can say that the problems in Saudi Arabia are far worse than I have ever seen in any other country
Varvar; I would hope that as a guest of a law firm that you would be treated with respect by the members of the firm and their staff. You will almost certainly be entertained in a family setting with members and their wives socially.
Outside you will almost certainly be treated as "another asian" and will be subject to the same problems that they have to endure - if you dress richly and go to the more expensive places then this will be reduced but if you want to explore the souks and so on you are likely to be followed by men and so forth.
If you are going to want to go to the malls and other places then I suggest that you ask the firm to provide you with a driver rather than rely on taxis which may be a problem for you (I know many women who will never get in a taxi driven by a saudi!)
If you are married bring your husband! You will have far more freedom and be able to travel more widely. Travelling and exploring alone as a woman is not a good idea no matter what nationality you are in Saudi Arabia.
Two months is too long to stay in a hotel, I would suggest that they find you a place on a western compound so that you can enjoy the lifestyle there, if you have to stay 2 months in a hotel with all of the restrictions you will not enjoy, at least on compound you will be able to mix with other westerners and enjoy the facilities. You will almost certainly be unable to mix with other guests in the hotel as they will be mainly men!
Thank you for your kind and prompt response to my questions.
I am rather torn at this point. On the one hand, I am quite adventurous and would love to be in an exotic locale that I may not otherwise have to the opportunity to see. On the other hand, KSA seems to be so restrictive for a single woman that I may end up seeing very little of it and be uncomfortable at the same time. I have traveled all over the world (including Turkey, Egypt and Jordan) on business and have rarely encountered the type of scenario that you have described here; in a perverse way, that makes me wanting to see/experience the horrors for myself. Crazy, no?
Since my boyfriend does not qualify as a legal husband in KSA, I will have to be on my own for those two months. The description of a western compound sounds too much like an adult summer camp (minus the alcohol) of which I am not particularly fond. Hotel sounds just horrible as well. When I am on an extended business travel, I usually stay in hotel apartments; Ritz and Four Seasons usually have apartment for long-term residents that are on the upper floors with a separate entrance from the hotel guests. The apartments are equipped with kitchens and can be furnished to suit one's taste. Is there something similar in KSA?
Just one more question. How does one go about dressed richly in public if all women wear black robes? Discreet Gucci logo at the hems?! Jeweled tiara perched above the hair covering?!
Varvar,
You may spend all of your life wondering "what if" if you do not go! If you are on a business visa and do not like how you are being treated by Saudis and find the country totally unbearable then you can just book a flight and go (as long as you have your fathers or guardians permission!)
Many of the hotels do have apartments and even some villas so I am sure your company could find something to meet your requirements.
As to the compounds being like adult holiday camps; many are and there is much (home made) alcohol to be found. Many people I met there went to escape a drinking problem and found themselves drinking more - I don't like to get drunk so I found the nightly getting drunk by the pool routine very boring which is why I moved off compound in the end!
As to being dressed richly, you can buy more expensive materials and decorate your Abaya and yes I have seen designer labels displayed on them! (Don't ask which labels I am a man!)
Also the better off women will display their jewelry and often have their abayas open a little to display designer clothes beneath (where they can get away with it!)
thanks for sharing your experience,am living in saudi since 5 years and i feel its good place to live. yes off course i have bitter experiences as well but can be neglected by seeing what is happening in other countries
i guess you can't put it on the Hippocracy of muslims. Muslim today is like a pearl among many rocks hard to find..although many call themselves muslims..
believe me Islam is perfect and doesn't allow such things and today downfall of muslims is due to their distance from islamic teachings...that pearl is getting rarer...
Hi Zubair, the reason for poor treatment of expats in Saudi Arabia is not down to being a Muslim or any other religion. Anyone who practiced any religion such as Islam or Christianity as it is meant to be applied would treat others with respect.
Hello everybody!
And specially thanks to lean mean for creating this hub where we can shear our experiences..I would love to add something to these stories..
Dear brother lean man I am a Pakistani national expat living in ksa from last 17years I came here with my family when I was 5 years old..My father(may god rest his soul in peace)was the one who brought us here...he is not with us anymore he died before 1year.I will shear some of my personal experiences while living here and believe me what I am going to write here is all true and will answer most of the question which are in minds of people living out side of Saudi Arabia.
1st of all I am a Muslim Allhumdullilah and I love my religion but...in all the world people thinks that the Saudis are the best Muslims this is absoloutly wrong...please for god sake mr lean you don't know the reallities..I lived in here almost a big part of life...
1.Saudis they take the things from Islam which are in there benefits and ignored all other..
2.I think in my opinion worlds most hypocratic and racist nation is this nation..
3.you treated well by them because you are a westerner did u ever Imagined the life of those people who are working with private sponsors in working visas as a salesman,a car mechanic,a cleaner,a store keeper etc...no mr lean u never experienced u never feel the pain when half era of your life u spent somewhere and in the end they consider you nothing more than a 3rd class citizen of some country and hurt your feelings...and mentally torture you coz they know even our law going to support us not this expat..did u ever saw there educational system what they are teaching there children's in there books?u better do a research on it..
If the say that they are the best Muslims then I would like to ask them some thing...
All the Muslims they know the story of our prophet (peace be upon him)when he asked his uncle to join Islam and to accept this religion he said I know that you are right you religion is true and kind but I can accept Islam as religion because I am from a big tribe and my family and tribal people will talk about me and call me by bad words simply it's against to my honour..
I ask a question to Saudi people that what is more important to you?your religion or your traditions?and now here most of them will answer no our religion ya???then there is a simple example that you people don't follow Islam u follow your so called honor and traditions...
Because like our Islam said a muslim man can get marry to another Muslim women even from which family she is or even from which race it doesn't matter..but u people say no a saudi girl must get married to a Saudi boy otherwise u kill them and now don't say no please because I have seen by my eyes these things these are not just stories Islam gives us the right to chose our life partner for our selves but u snacthed this right from your child's because of your traditions... your consider your self prior to others just because you were born in a wealthy country?just because another expats from poor countries came to work here...while Islam says no body is prior to other except taqwa (means how much he is religious and kind to humans) our islam teaches love to all living creatures in this world without the difference of colour,nationality and religion as well don't forget our prophet (PBUH) ate with Christians and non Muslims this was our ethics which make Muslims love by others..see today what is the Image of Muslims in west..these expats indian,pakistani etc..are not here to serve u they are here for money keep this in mind 90% of labour work force are expats without them your industry your social life your restaurants each and everything is nothing....u people can see the story of a pakistani girl who was sentenced in to jail for 6 months and then deported to Pakistan and her crime was She get raped by a Saudi man..u can read this story by searching in google as well..
How u say that u are the best Muslims in world?what are the proofs that the Islam u practice is complete?and if now u say that yes we follow our traditions more than anything then please stop miss guiding this world that you are people are the best muslims...I would like to finish here I can answer more questions like why I am still here?and short answer is I am going forever after few months from here...and the reasons of my long stay over here I will write them and also I can write that why the expats if they don't like here don't go back to their homelands....everything I can answer...i want to see the reaction of those people who was saying we go through Islam laws we we we ....
And em sorry for my poor English...there are some spelling mistakes,,
Hi Charner, I am sorry you have such bad experiences in Saudi Arabia, but like many other other expats I was there for the money and nothing else.
I have met many expats from India,Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines with terrible stories about how they were treated, just look at the poll in the text above; at the time of writing this 55 non-western expats have voted and well over half have experienced some form or either verbal or physical abuse - almost 40% have been physically abused, that's 2 out of every 5! But they remain as they have little choice if they want to continue to feed their families back home and provide schooling for their children and so forth.
I know many Saudis are true Muslims and many are good people, however the behavior of a sizable portion of their population does not reflect the teachings of Islam and the Saudi treatment of expats certainly does not reflect Islam!
Even as a westerner I have been shouted at and treated very poorly within my workplace, but I have also made some very good friends in Saudi Arabia, both expat and Saudi.
And I know no Saudi is going to comment anymore after the harsh reallities those I exposed...
Hi LeanMan
I am a Non-Muslim Indian working presently as an engineer in India. I have received an offer from Bariq Mining Company(sister concern of Barrick Gold Mining Corporation, Canada). They have offered me for the position of electrician. When i asked them to review the position, they told me that it was just for the sake of getting the work visa. After getting here they would reinstate me to my current position. What is your opinion on this. Would they?
The pay is definitely good. But on reading your hub i am totally discouraged. I have one western expat in that company through which i have got this job. But i am skeptical know much would he be of help.
Please comment.
Hi audijosh,
I don't know the company or the people in it so I would not be able to tell you. If they are an international company and they have told you this in writing through email then I don't see any reason to doubt them....however this is Saudi Arabia...
Talk to you western expat friend and ask him how the Saudis treat expats within the company and maybe also look on linkedin to see if you can find others that work there that you can contact.
well informed research about life in KSA. Please suggest a best community / district outside of compound where one can rent a 4 beds + 3 baths apartment around SAR 45-55K.
Hi Al, thanks for reading and commenting about how expats are treated by Saudis. As to your apartment search, you don't say where you are located - but for your price range you can search in some of the more affluent and up market areas.
Thanks LeanMan for your updates. Is Al-Malaz is considered an affluent and upmarket area? Please advise.
Hi Al. I am not familiar with that area, nor do I know which city you are in. If the buildings look better appointed and the cars are nicer then I would suggest that it is a more up market area.
Thanks Leanman.
Hello LeanMan
Am currently looking for employment and one country is KSA i am thinking about. Wish to thank you for this site, the information you have provided and the dicussion board.
Thanks for reading Jarratt, I hope you find the job that you want and are treated well by Saudis when you get to Saudi Arabia.
So do i LeanMan :-) Am looking but there seems to be no positions at the moment, maybe due to Saudisation or that they are slow in getting back to the agency i am using.
Yet with the negatives that i read, am still excited about trying to and possibly getting a job for my career/the experience and personal growth. Have had a friend just return from KSA (female & maori) from which she had good and bad experiences but would go back under certain circumstances. Also what would you consider the best city to work in?
Hi Jarratt, there is a big difference in how you will be treated by Saudis when you compare the different cities. I would try to go for Jeddah, or Al-Khobar/Dammam as these are the most relaxed. Al-Khobar and Dammam have the added bonus that you can cross the causeway into Bahrain for a beer every weekend; some expats actually living in Bahrain and commuting into Saudi to work!
I am a Hindu , Hate Saudi and Saudi's rules they are just animals , before Petrolium exploration they were just beggers .. I hate them and never want any Indian to go there and work , bloddy idiots they even dont respect women.
Hi Muslim haters, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but better to educate them and help them to be better people than just to condemn them! Maybe if others set a better example they will learn to treat expat Indians with respect in Saudi Arabia.
Well, I am a nurse in Saudi Arabia, non-Western (really easy to guess my nationality now because we're mostly the ones who fill hospitals and clinics here big and small), and I've been staying here for 2 years now. I live in one of the not-so-good parts of Riyadh where most of the foreign Arabs come from (Sudanis, Somalians, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Indians, Yemenis, etc) and what I can say is so far, the very Saudi patients we have are mostly polite, nice, and quiet while the Egyptians (which are majority of our patients) are loud, verbally abusive, and easily angry every second of the day. Seriously, Saudi Arabia made me hate Egyptians, not Saudis.
Hi Anon, thanks for your comments about how expats are treated by Saudis. I am glad that you have had a pleasant experience and I hope it continues. Personally if I were in hospital I would be very careful to be very nice to the nursing staff so that they returned the favour!
As to your nationality I am in your home as I write this enjoying my stay!
hey i got engaged nd im an INDIAN:))))..my fiance is working in KSA for the last 4 years, he describes it as a very good place to live. He's got a permanent visa and by this year i will get married and come there to live for the next approx.7 years maybe...reading all the stuff over the internet about indian's and women being treated in KSA is making my mind work more than usual...though ur hub brings down my BP..lol...bt i hope its all good...how r women/INDIANS actually and really treated in KSA...BE HONEST FRIEND
Hi Divya, congratulations on you future marriage. Indians are generally not that well treated by the Saudis as they see them mainly as domestics. But if you are there to be with your husband rather than as an employee then you will not have the problems of ending up with an abusive Saudi sponsor which does happen. Life in Saudi can actually be very good, I am sure you will enjoy.
what if i consider taking up a job in future coz there is notin much to do???...ill be in DAMMAM so.
Hello LeanMan ,,,,
I really like this article that you wrote
it's unbiased and describes Saudi Arabia very well
I'm really embarrassed of some of my fellow Saudis' actions
we should be opened and accept the others regardless of who they are
Thank you LeanMan
Hi Divya, you are officially only allowed to work for your sponsor which would be your husband so you would not be allowed to find work. However many do illegally but you run the risk of unscrupulous Saudi employers who will fail to pay you as you can't force them! Some also transfer their Iqama to an employer so that they can work but you then have a problem if your new sponsor wants to move elsewhere in the kingdom or refuses to give you breaks with your husband.
Hello Just a Normal Saudi, thank you for your kind comments.
Alrighty thanks a ton for all the info sir ..much needed…..have a gr8 time.tc
Muslim haters should first hate the Hindu Caste System and its own horrific inequities.
No one should hate or discriminate against anyone! Pointing at someone else who is doing something worse than you are doing does not excuse or make right what you do!
Wow this is a huge eye opener for me!! My thoughts of Saudi were that I was going to be chauffered around by a nice tourgiving driver. That I would have families at the hospitals bring in baked goods and treats daily. That if I did a good job as a nurse I may get whisked away by some nice royal family with accomadations fit for a princess. I thought I would also be able to save up 90% of my income with just wearing the religous garments. I thought I would feel like a long extended vacation with warm weather 80% of the time and a pool at my command, and possibly travel oppurtunities to exoctic places since they are so close and cheap. So I may be abused, not be able to return home, possibly raped/tourtured. Maybe I should negotiate a higher salary...-31 y/o African American single female nurse-
Hi Lisainjedda, have replied to your comment on another hub also; I think you should enjoy Jeddah, I certainly do! You can save plenty in Saudi Arabia as most of your expenses are paid such as your accomodation and often your travel.
You could very well get daily gifts, my wife is very chatty with her patients (all female, although she has worked with males in previous hospitals) and they often bring her clothing and perfume. They like to be made to feel important and will often reward such behaviour with gifts.
If you stay on compound it is just like a vacation with pool and other facilities (and beer and other drinks if you partake!) I used to go to a party (or host one) just about every weekend in Jeddah. The lifestyle is a little unreal to be honest!
My wife and her friends say never trust a Saudi man - even if he says he is a prince; but you never know your luck could be in, read my hub on dating in Saudi Arabia.
Lol about Saudi men! Thanks sounds more of how I envisioned even with the cultural differences.
Thanks for the information LeanMan! I have been offered a position at the Prince Mohammad University and my day today is to do as much reading as I can before giving my decision. As an American woman who would be traveling alone I want to make sure that accepting the contract for two years would be a good fit for me. I am keeping an open mind while I am making this decision because I know this is an incredible opportunity for me. I look forward to reading more that you have written!
Hi Lisa, I would stay away from Saudi men in Saudi Arabia especially in "party" type situations as you could get your self in problems! Enjoy your stay, don't worry I am sure you will be treated with respect by most Saudis.
Hi Keirsey, working in the university and as an American you should not have to many problems as to how you will be treated by Saudis. Working in KSA is a huge experience and a very rewarding one financially as you will easily save the majority of your wage.
My thoughts exactly!!
Hello Everyone,
I came across this page trying to understand the Saudi lifestyle. I am a 20 something caucasian male living in USA currently and have been offered a position for a few months in Saudi Arabia. I am not sure exactly what area I will be staying in. As a general question to all, how would I be looked at by the local citizens? I would certainly take-in everything with an open mind. Are there exercise gyms? Would I be fine wearing American clothing? I would hate to miss this experience because of uncertainty...
Thank you all!
Hi Murdok90, you will probably live on a western compound so your will have access to a gym, pool and other facilities. American clothing should be fine as long as it is respectful - no tshirts with lewd messages or pictures, no shorts above the knee off compound, no sleeveless vests and so forth. The Saudis are very reserved, follow their rules and the Saudis will treat you fine.
hello everyone,
I really like this page & its interesting! For years of flying as a flight attendant in the kingdom I could tell a lot about Saudis character. Every single day I interact hundreds of them and its not easy to handle AT ALL. I cannot say that all Saudis are bad nor abusive. Ofcourse there would be good and not-good.I do have good Saudi friends and polite passengers but very few to measure. Luckily, if they are nice and treat you fairly, that's really genuine! but sad to say in general I have to put this way, I don't like Saudis: being an arrogant, spoiled, the mentality of being "the best creation in the world", the incurable ignorance, and hypocrisy. Even middle class or high class Saudis has this behavior, too. I just don’t get why keep on praying for 5 times a day and then commit sins after? I didn’t say that after a multiple prayers you should not commit a single sin, Im also a human and I commit sins which cant be avoided.
I have seen a lot of instances and personally experienced those. For example during the flight, as an expat worker, most of the time I feel bad with passengers (saudis) looking upon a flight attendant as a slave, snapping fingers, shouting when they want to ask something, don’t know how to follow rules & regulations and very adamant so just like they want to do whatever they want to like they are at their own home. And the saddest part most them you cannot communicate well because of the language barrier. So I myself forcibly learn Arabic words and its good for me. But language is not an issue, it’s the way how they badly behave. Ethics & hygiene to mention.
Because I do believe no matter what status you are in the society rich or poor, if you dont have this good values, good upbringing from home (family) it definitely reflects your personality. Wether you are wearing fancy jewels, hi-end shoes or bags, expensive perfumes it doesn’t impress at all. Having respect for your own will assure gain respect from others.
shukran!
Hi Flygirl, I guess you are in a situation where you can comment on how Saudis treat expats with great authority having to mix with them every day with your work. Thanks for your enlightened comments.
I am an Indian Engineer and having an offer letter (Assistant Manager Post) from an American company. But offer letter is under local Saudi sponsors. That means I may not have any connection with the American Company on paper/ or on documents. Will it create problem as Local Saudi sponsors will be completely Muslim oriented and may be having problems with Asians. Although American co-partners (Having office in Dubai) are relaxing me saying it will not be a problem as company is having large community of Asians (As engineers / technicians).
What is average rents for apartments ? I am having budget of 15-18 k SAR/Year. I know this is little but company is saying that is good enough to stay in 2 BR apartment. Is that true?
Hi Dude, I met many Asian engineers and accountants etc in Saudi Arabia and you should be treated fine by the Saudis if you follow their rules. As to the apartment that will be enough for a small apartment off compound but certainly would not get you a place on compound.
Thanks for the answers Leanman, What about the contractual documentation problems ? Will that create issues if require to resign or get outside Saudi ? What will be average rental charges on compound ? (Al khobar)
Hi dude, with regards to contracts and the like the Saudis tend to hold all of the cards. You tend to have to follow what they want and if that means they will not release you from a contract when you find alternative work then you are stuck! They can also refuse to give you exit visas and you would find it very difficult to escape!
Compounds vary considerably but you can expect to pay upwards of 50k per year for a small place.
Hi leanman, i am a British(but originaly indian) and am looking to come and work in riyadh for a reputed financial organisation in a senior role, potentially looking for a long term stay. Package promised is good with all expat benefits, lifestyle & accommodation etc etc. If i live in British expat community/compound (i intend to stay in the most safest or place only inhabited with western) expats and just keep to the expat lifestyle,meaning my own business (work etc etc) how likely is my being "not white" going to create opportunities for potential situations (that you and some people speak off around pecking order & racism) and basically what challenges can i face in day to day life.
thanks in advance, btw your hub has provided me with a lot of insights as i prepare to see saudi arabia as my next destination of work.
Cheers!
Hi Pingpong, I am glad that you have found my work useful. You should be treated fine in your workplace to your face if you are taking a senior role, non Saudis however are all second or third class citizens as far as most Saudis are concerned no matter where they come from although you should not receive any abuse.
Within the compound you should find it much like being in the west with a heightened holiday type atmosphere.
You are scaring me now ! Rule in Saudi is any MNC who want to do business in Saudi should have local sponsors from Saudi so every expats who are working in Saudi should be working under a local sponsored Saudi organisation. So everyone should be under threatening like this. There has to be some kind of human right in this . How to find solution from this.?
Hi Dude, many people have no problems working in Saudi Arabia, but I frequently get comments and emails from people of all nationalities who want to change jobs but their current sponsors refuse to release them and then refuse exit visas if they think the employee is planning to just leave their employment. Even if the employee did leave they could not return to work for another company without the previous sponsors permission for between 1 and 2 years depending on the country you are from.
Hmm ! Quite unusual laws ! Anyways, Lets see and have trust on sponsors. Have discussed with the current employees who are from India (My Home Country) and they say, there will be no problem. Have to take the risk to get something more than what can be earned here in quick Time. Everyone say, quick money does not stay along but lets discuss this once I get quick money :) Cheers
Hi Dude, as long as you keep you head down and work hard you will be fine. Good luck and I hope you manage to build a sizable nest egg for your eventual return home.
I have got an offer to work in Jizan University. I am indian Hindu. Can anyone guide about the treatment of indian expats by the Saudians
Hi Indian, you should be treated fine in Saudi Arabia, read above if you want more details or follow the links below for more details about Saudi life.
hi leanMan, Thnx for your response. I have gone through your several links and read about the treatment by Saudi Arabians,but my queries are still unanswered. i request you to please take time and answer my following queries
1. you stated many times in your comments that "non westerns are not treated well" then how commented that i should be treated fine??
2.Still i am not able to find out neither in your pages nor anywhere else that how the lecturers are treated in universities, How Saudi students treat with indian faculties,How the Arab Staff behave with Indian expats ??
3. As you have explored the life there at KSA. your personal comments as to come there for job or not ??
4. is it worth to come there for salary of 11000SR/month
Hope u'll give sincere advice thanx
Hi Indian, I have not worked within a university in Saudi Arabia but I would hope that they behave with respect towards one another. If you want more relevant feedback can I suggest that you join linkedin and try to find if any of your countrymen are working with your prospective employer then you can get some first hand feedback.
As to salary, only you can answer that; if it is enough for you then the salary is fine! You can compare salaries on bayt.com for positions in Saudi Arabia.
The decision to go is your decision alone, I have given my thoughts on how expats are treated and other subjects within my various articles as do many others on the internet, the choice to go however is a decision that you have to make for yourself.
Hi LeanMan.. I am so glad I found this page. I am a non muslim. I have got a job offer with a IT consulting company to work for their client which is a Saudi bank.
1) Do you think the treatment would be same for non expats ?
2) Also as far as accomodation is concerned are there any "safe" places like western compunds for non westerners like me
3) Also do you think its safe to travel in public transport, walk on roads etc without getting abused ?
Thanks
Hi Vikram,
I assume you are from India or Pakistan and as such your treatment in the work place should be OK. There are many compounds that accept foreign workers from all countries and you should be fine on any of them. As to walking the streets you should be fine, however you may find it a little hot. Public transport is mainly taxis which are quite expensive if you need to make multiple journeys, it is far cheaper to hire a car. Most compounds and some companies also have their own transport that you will be able to make use of.
Hi LeanMan.. Thanks for your reply. Yes I am from India. I had been to Dubai a year back and I found the bus and metro rail service very convenient... Isnt there any bus or rail service in Saudi... I am sure the labourer and low paid workers will find hiring taxis or car very expensive...
Also it almost sounds like that in Saudi you may just have to put your head down when you are in around public place or even at work.. Is it that bad
Thanks
Hi Vikram,
There are no rail services and most companies bus their own employees. I have seen a bus service but it is very infrequent and very old in Jeddah that appears to be picking up mainly low paid workers, i have no idea of the frequency or the routes that it runs; but it can't be very frequent as I have only seen it a few times.
It is best whatever nationality you are in Saudi to not draw attention to yourself, but as an Indian you will not be treated very fairly as most will assume you are a laborer or from some low paid job.
Thanks again LeanMan.
I am going to get around 15000 riyals per month as the salary.
How much do you think I would be able to save. I know it depends on the way you live.
But say I live in a decent 1 bedroom + kitchen and cook at home. Go out to a nice restaurant once a week with my wife and twice a week take my wife and 1 yr old to the beach or mall. Thanks again
Hi Vikram, my wife and I found it hard to spend 5000 every month and we went out every weekend so you should be able to save fairly easily.
Thanks again LeanMan. are you counting the House rent in the 5000 every month or is it excluding that ?
Hi Vikram. Excluding the house rent, but we were buying stuff to send home every month and so on so we were quite extravagant in our spending! Feel free to send me an email via the icon below the profile picture top right if you need any more info.
Sir,
Thank you for all the info. I have a offer with Al Kodhari in KSA as a HR. They are offering me 8000 sar Basic. Is it enough?
Hi Delima, only you can answer if it will be enough. If you want to compare salary however you can do so on Bayt.com.
Thank you sir. Kindly suggest if Al Kodhari is a good Employer.
Hi Delima, I do not know them personally, your bet way to find out is to join linkedin.com and find other people who have worked for them. Then you can contact them directly for their opinion.
Generally this is the accepted order of things in the Kingdom: Saudi's, Westerners (whites), Gulf Arabs, Westerners (non-white with passport), Philipinnos, Pakistanis, Indians, Sri Lankans and the Bangladeshis last. Having lived here for many hyears I also happen to know for a fact that all of the 'major' Western style compounds in Riyadh have approximately 2-year waiting lists - with active screening of new candidates in place. Basically getting back to serving 'Western/White' clientel who are here on contract. Not sure if this helps, but it is the way it is.
Hi Jo, it certainly is the way in Saudi! The lower you are down the scale of the social lists the worse your treatment will be at the hands of the Saudis!
First of all thank you for your post, I think you have been fair enough, not too rough on us :D
As a saudi woman, I have to completely agree wit you that non-western expats are treated pretty badly here, Thank god that my family (and most of the families I know) are civilized people and would never bring physical or emotional harm upon anyone!
I think this matter has to be addressed urgently, those poor people must suffer a great deal coming all the way from their country for a small amount of money and get abused by ignorant A holes.
One thing I don't agree with, in regards with what you wrote, saudi women ARE treated well here! If you stay long enough you will see that! But you have to know that if the family is ignorant, and they do not understand their religion correctly, this will lead to their women being abused.
I consider myself to be very lucky, even though my origins are beduin, but my family is well educated and very open minded. I was blessed to be the daughter of a liberal man and a moderate woman.
Change is coming, more and more families are embracing a liberal lifestyle and this will lead to a more tolerant environment :) Enjoy your stay here and splurge in every corner (Don't worry about taxes) splurge
Thank you for your honest comments Noura, by being open about problems they can be tackled and solved, hiding them is as good as saying that they are OK. Like any society Saudis have their good and bad people and no one is the same, I hope that people like you soon become the majority.
Hi there Sand Man. I am a Black French woman getting ready to move to Al Khobar & I'm quite nervous about how I'll be treated there. Should I be walking around with my passport? Also when my husband (white man) & I go out should we carry our marriage certificate?
Great Hub you've got & it's loaded with what seems to be invaluable info.
I also admire how you've got a word for all you comment on your Hub.
Hi Memyself&I, your sponsor will take your passports so you will not have to worry about that side of things! You should take a copy of your marriage certificate until you are issued your Iqama as you never know when someone might stop you.
Al-Khobar is quite a relaxed part of Saudi so you should be treated reasonably OK compared to Riyadh.
Cheers, LeanMan. So, Schlimberger will be holding on to our passports? Wow, don't know how I feel about that. I thought I needed my passport in case I got in some trouble with the Muttaween & such.
Anyway, any idea how Saudis are towards Black people? Heard they're not so nice. This makes me nervous. I shouldn't get better treatment because of my passport only. I certainly am not better than others.
Hi Memyself&I, you will need to carry a photocopy of your visa page or some document from your company until you have your Iqama but don't worry too much. Unless you do something stupid and against their rules you should not be stopped.
Black people are not in my experience treated any different to any other color specifically, the Saudis are a pretty mixed bunch themselves! They do however discriminate more on perceived social class so they treat people they think are from poor countries very badly. So if you dress well and flash your jewelry then you are unlikely to be picked on for any reason, but if I were you I would still go out with your husband or a group of other women. Women walking alone anywhere are not seen in a very positive light!
In the section below there are several links to other articles in this series about Saudi Arabia if you would like to read more.. If you would like to stay in touch and feedback your experiences then feel free to use the "contact leanman" icon below my profile picture at the top right - I try to answer all mail that I receive.
I thank thee Lean Man!
I thank thee Lean Man!
Will keep in touch & give feed back. Going in August/Saptember Inshallah!
The best of luck to you both, I hope you enjoy your stay..
I worked in KSA and never feel the things which was mentioned above
Yes- this is true driving is bad, but not all the people.Yes,people hate asians but not all the Saudis.
I still remember my Saudi Friends which were really professional and always willing to learn more and working hard also.
So donot worry about few minor issues, get your job and got the money and enjoy the life with family.
I am going Jeddah again in few months and will enjoy my period there.
I am glad that you have had a good experience of working with Saudis Sohail.
As a Saudi this post is mostly true! It's sad how some Saudis treat foreigners, I'm awfully sorry to all those who been discriminated against by Saudis. I believe we are getting better in terms of tolerance and accepting others. In my opinion, Saudi Arabia must pass a law to protect non-Saudis from racism and prejudice. Nice topic thu!
Respectfully.
Thanks for your comments Agnostic, I am sure that things will improve over time as Saudis mix more with other peoples and cultures.
Hi i am from Nepal and i am moving to saudi reyadh next week. But, after reading your hub, i m so scared as well confused. Go to saudi or not? Please tell me what would i have to do. I am thinking not to go over there
Hi Jazz, working in any foreign country can be frightening. Saudi Arabia can be a very strange country but as long as you follow their rules and work hard then you should have no problems with how the Saudis will treat you. Make sure your family and friends know how to contact you in Saudi and do nothing wrong and I am sure you will make plenty of cash to save for your future.
Hi Leanman,,what is iqama? can every expat apply for this? tks in advance
Hi Daniel, your Iqama is your residency permit which will allow you to stay and live in the kingdom as well as use the banks and buy a SIM card; it acts as your ID card and is about the only ID that will be accepted in many places.
You get your Iqama through your employer converting your work visa after 90days of working in the kingdom on a work visa, if not you will be sent home.
I am glad to hear you are happy here. Unfortunately as a American woman who does not fit the desired western stereotypical image (blonde and blue eyes) I do get treated as crap. They expect a woman to be subserviant. Even though I am a surgeon, I still get disrespected. By the way, most people in higher positions are there from wasta, not due to their skills. At this point I am so sad for the malpractice that I see everyday performed on patients by the poorly trained Saudis. Did you know that the saudis that do their fellowship training in western countries only are there in person. They only shadow the attending physicians. Of course this is not everyone, but most. So sorry to say this but saudis are unethical, arrogant, dirty, HYPOCRITICAL, racist, immoral and generally bad human beings. God Bless America and democracy.
Hi Rose, I have met some very skilled and respectful Saudis, but I have also met many of the other type of Saudi and been on the receiving end of how the Saudis treat expats. I would be very worried about receiving treatment from any Saudi, the Hospital that my wife used to work at was owned by a Saudi doctor that purchased his degree and never had a day of training in his life!
Hello Leanman, this is an excellent hub. I am moving to Saudi in July 2012 to take a position in Jeddah. It is not my first overseas position but the first in Saudi. Do you have any articles relating to safety of British expat workers? I plan to give it 3 to 5 years in Saudi but I read some horror stories on the net. I have n interst in breaking any laws whatsoever. It just seems that you could be unlucky for whatever reason and then you are stuck there. Any thoughts?
Hi Anon, I am a Brit and I have spent some time in Jeddah and totally enjoyed myself. I have been mainly treated reasonably but at times you want to scream. You have to be fairly laid back with a thick skin if you want to deal with the Saudis.
Stick to their rules off compound and you should not have any problems. If you are on linkedin see if there are any other expats employed by your prospective employer and get their views about how they are treated by the company.
I am sure that you will have fun as well as build up a reasonable nest egg while you are there. Keep in touch and let us know how things progress.
Expat Workers Badly Treated by Employers
Saudi Arabia Links
Here are some useful links that may come in handy if you are within Saudi Arabia or looking to visit Saudi Arabia for work or any other reason;
Saudi Arabian Airlines Saudi Airlines (Saudia) is the national airline within KSA and most of your internal flights and even incoming or departing flights are likely to be with this airline.
Saudi Arabia Embassy in the UK, lots of links and details to help you with getting your Visa for Saudi Arabia, use this website to find all of the entry and documentary requirements for your visas as well as general information about the country.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs KSA (MOFA), links here will enable you to monitor the progress of your Saudi work visa or any other variation of Saudi Visa by using the reference number you will be given for your application..
Saudi Government Links is a Saudi Government website, it has many links to other government sites which will help you with finding other information that you may require for your visit to Saudi Arabia..
Saudi Arabian Embassy Washington is the main Saudi Embassy in the US, here you will find all the information required for your Saudi Visa.
British Embassy in Riyadh is the UK Embassy in Riyadh, very useful if you have questions about Saudi Arabia or need any help. I have found them very helpful when I have needed advice, plus they hold events for us Brits in the country at which they serve BEER! They can also help you if you feel that you have been poorly treated by your Saudi employer or sponsor.
US Embassy in Riyadh is a helpful link for those of you from the US should you be visiting the country. As with the UK embassy they have events and lots of advice for entering KSA. Again these guys can help you if you have any issues regarding your treatment by your employer.
Philippine Embassy in Riyadh just to help those of you coming from the philippines to work on a visa in Saudi Arabia.This should be your first point of call should you be maltreated by your Saudi Sponsor here in Saudi Arabia.
Indian Embassy in Riyadh Indian Embassy in Riyadh, as with the Philippine embassy above, contact your embassy if you are working here as an expat and feel that you are being treated badly.
Embassies in Saudi Arabia has Contact Details for All the various Embassies in KSA should your individual embassy not be listed above.
Saudi Arabia Travel Advice is US Travel advice for Saudi Arabia which is equally applicable to any other nationality who may be considering gaining a visa to visit Saudi Arabia.
Arab News Arab Newspaper
Haj Travel Information Saudi Arabia Haj Information
Muslim Sacred Sites in KSA to visit when you have your Saudi Visas.
Entertainment in Saudi Arabia Things to do in Saudi Arabia
Learn to Speak Arabic Learn to speak Arabic online.
Arabic words and phrases Some Handy words and Phrases.
Muslim Date Conversion Saudi Arabian Muslim Date Conversion
The above links may come in handy if you are visiting or an Expat working and living in Saudi Arabia, I hope you are not badly treated here in Saudi Arabia and have enjoyed hearing about how expats are treated in Saudi Arabia..
FuzzyCookie 22 months ago
There was something in this hub that made me read it from start to end. Never been to Saudi, but I've heard that every woman in there has to put on the burka and veil. I wonder how long you're planning to stay in there? :D
Cheers!